Just wanted to let those of you attending Pixelmania who are planning on shooting after the parks close know that our group of 6 photographers shooting after hours was accused of 'suspicious' conduct (in taking pictures after the parks closed) on three separate occasions from Oct 1-5. ; At first I thought it was just one security guard 'acting out', but three seems like more than coincidence. I don't know what they meant was suspicious about it (us being commercial photographers? terrorists trying to scope out the parks? ; competition trying to scope out the parks?) as they would not tell us specifically how it was suspicious only that, "you know what I mean, it looks suspicious." It didn't really affect our shooting much or force us to leave earlier than we wanted (which are the pertinent concerns in my book), but it's something I figured would be worth passing on to all of you.
Re: Potential Problem for Pixelmania There was the recent threat to sports stadiums and maybe Disney is taking it one step more to include their parks. ; Of course, they are within their right if the park is offically closed to ask quests to leave. Tom, you are getting famous! Disney photographers are getting nervous and putting the word out. ;
Re: Potential Problem for Pixelmania Some in our party speculated about the sports stadium threat being the reason why. ; However, it seems to me if terrorists were interested in scouting the parks, they would do it during the day when they would blend in better amongst the crowds. ; However, if Disney were concerned about the threat, I bet its management would simply tell security to be a little 'tighter' for X period, rather than passing on any information about any specific threats. ; With as many security guards as there are at WDW, if any direct information were passed along, someone would inevitably leak it. ; That would be a PR nightmare. Oddly, they didn't ask us to leave when they made the comments about us being suspicious (one also asked how we got tripods into the park...). ; They asked us later in the evening a couple of times, at which time we obliged.
Re: Potential Problem for Pixelmania They must have different security people outside the parks. Once they see it's a tripod, they let you through without a hitch.
Re: Potential Problem for Pixelmania Strange indeed...sounds like one hand wasn't talking to the other, because the front gate security admits tripods without any problem, then the ones inside question you about them. I haven't had any issues myself, as recently as last month...I did stay late after close in one park and take photos, though without my tripod that time. ; In June, I stayed late at two parks with tripod and wasn't harrassed at all. ; I suppose that there were more than one of you might have had something to do with it, though it does fit into that category of terror-watch and suspicious behavior watch that doesn't make much sense to me (a bunch of middle aged Disney fans taking photos of an empty park seems notably LESS suspicious than someone taking photos of the same during the day with thousands around (as Tom mentioned...what terrorist would stand around alone and obvious in a near-empty park being patrolled by security to take a photo?). ; The good news is that noone made you leave - that just means they were being extra diligent and decided to question you on your actions to make sure. ; You're response being unpanicked or unsuspicious probably diffused their suspicion and that's why they left you alone again. I wouldn't worry about it too much, as long as they didn't chase you away. ; Eventually, them asking you to leave a reasonable amount of time after the parks have closed is perfectly acceptable and expected.
Re: Potential Problem for Pixelmania When it's just Sarah and I, we never have gotten any more guff than security or the clearers encouraging us to move towards the exit, so I think it was the quantity of people this time. ; I figured it was worth mentioning so you guys aren't blindsided by it next month (if it even happens) and don't just abruptly rush out if they make the suspicious comments to you all (obviously if they just say to 'leave' that's a different story). At one point, after the rest of the guys left, it was just Sarah and I standing in front of SSE about 15' from the turnstiles for 15 minutes. ; There was a particular shot I really wanted, but it required the monorail passing both sides of SSE. ; After it passed on the left, the security guard said that we needed to head out, and I asked if he could just give us two minutes longer. ; Waiting for it to pass on the right was probably the longest 3 minutes of my life. ; I figured I was going to get a tap on my shoulder at any second, but I didn't. ; He even wished us a good night and thanked us for coming as we left, so I doubt he was too upset. ;
Re: Potential Problem for Pixelmania That is really odd behavior for sure. ; I was in MK late last Saturday night- probably an hour or more after 11pm closing- with a tripod and all and was never spoken to aside from someone saying hello or what-not. ; There was a pair of uniformed security guards who patiently followed me while I did some shooting and went at a my own pace all the way from the HM to Casey's Corner- and then 'stood down' since that's about where I caught up with a lot of other people still hanging around. ; I was by myself so maybe that was the difference? ; Weird. All that being said- I have noticed (or become more cognoscente) of a lot more security hanging around. ; Within the last few months I have noticed the guard at the ‘no bags’ park entrances went from 1 to 3 or more and they all wear the little secret-service type ear talky thingies. ; Makes me wonder who are they talking to? ; Is someone in a security room somewhere watching a monitor and saying “Larry- Tripod at 6 o’clock?â€Â
Re: Potential Problem for Pixelmania Been here since Sunday and nobody has said a word to me about anything. ; If we get stopped, we will politely answer their questions and thank them for protecting our safety while we do what we enjoy. ; It is their private property after all; our goal is to have fun as transparently as possibly. ; The problems arise when people throw words such as hassle and harass around without knowing the legal definition of said words. ; I am not worried about pixelmania. ;
Re: Potential Problem for Pixelmania I was in the parks on Sept 11, 2007 and that was the only time I was ever harassed by Disney Security on multiple occasions. ; In fact, I was told it was against Disney policy to allow tripods on property. ; But, I was stopped by multiple security officers at multiple locations. ; We made the supposition at the time that it was because of what day it was. My personal theory would be that it was the size of your group. I was at EPCOT for a special press event where they were interviewing an entire crew of the Space Shuttle and it was probably 80% press 20% regular park guests. ; My wife had gotten me into the press pool by making nice with someone who happened to know someone in Disney PR who got me the greenlight. ; But I digress. ; I had observed that the official press were typically travelling in groups of 4-6 photographers. ; Based on their credentials I could tell they didn't all work for the same outlets but seemed to know each other. To uninformed Disney Security, I bet they thought you were with the media. ; Some will come out and ask you (which happened to Tim, Roger and me at Disneyland in 2007), others will call it suspcious behavior. if you really want to get on someone's radar, carry around a notebook and take notes about each shot you take (from what I'm told that is the way it used to be done in film days because you didn't have EXIF data to rely on). ; That happened to a Disney fan photographer at Disneyland a earlier this year. ; In his case, security detained and questioned him.
The topic title here was probably a little too strong--I doubt you all will have any problem, just letting you know what we experienced so it wouldn't come as a surprise if they said anything to you (I went back and edited the title of the thread). ; We still had absolutely no problem shooting after the parks closed, so no one should be concerned about anything. ; Sarah and I have always found that being polite and understanding will work in your favor with Security/Clearing CMs after closing. ; I figured it would just be nice to know in advance that security may say something.
Re: Potential Problem for Pixelmania I wanted to add, that usually, as long as you are sensitive to the fact that the CM's are just trying to do their job, comply and smile and even thank them (like Tim suggested), you can get a long way. ; I've seen Tim talk his way into getting into closed off areas to get shots that I'd never dare to ask (he went into the Blue Bayou to get shots way after they were closed). Disney security has to deal with so many "entitled" guests that they usually approach those situations already prepared for an argument. The planning committee is fully aware of the impact large groups can have day or night (just look at the Safari meet at MouseFest 2007). ; That is why it's our goal to always keep that in mind and try to not really draw attention to ourselves if possible. ; For that reason, it may be best to try and make sure we don't have a pack of tripoded cameras roaming the park after close. ; Divide up and then wander
As a former Disney Security Officer I thought I would chime in. First, the reason they wear little ear pieces is so they do not broadcast their business to all the guests. Very tacky. At times back in my day I wore a blazer if I was a Foreman working at the Main Gate. I used to over hear people all the time making snide remarks about "secret service" etc. You may notice that park management wears earpieces also. This also came up in the DPN forms lately. The discussion was also about video recording on certain attractions. This was one of my responses. I was at Washington DC last year and I was shooting with a tripod in the Jefferson Memorial until I was asked by Security not too. Outside the memorial seemed to be ok and I was not approached outside. It was a safety issue. People do not pay attention to where they are going and they trip. At Mousefest 2006 I was standing in a crowd on the Tomorrowland bridge shooting the fireworks and a small chlld came running through the crowd and under peoples legs and knocked over my tripod. Luckily I am very protective on my equipment and was straddling it and caught it. I said a few choice words about parent watching their kids and got a few laughs from the crowd and I quickly got over it. Sort of! When I was in Security, we basically did not let people use tripods in crowds, parades, shows (they usually blocked someone else view) etc. Some Security Officers don't use common sense. There is the letter of the law and then there is common sense. ; Its like the calls I used to get about professional camera's being used. ; Check out how its being used and determine if approaching the user is necessary. ; If "shooters" are shooting cheerleaders in front of the Castle ( I actually got to do this in HS. We had permission and an escort) they may be professionals. Most pros "working" have escorts from "Media Relations". We used to get and I understand they still do, foreign news crews that think they can just set up and shoot. Disney does not like that. I could go on, but I think you get the point. I think the other reason you may see more Security around WDW, is the world around WDW is changing. It is not the isolated resort it used to be. There was a time when 1 Officer on each "side" of the Magic Kingdom was enough. Virtually NO plain clothes officers for shoplifting. But like Disneyland, WDW is finding itself in a more urban/suburban area. Look at the problems at Down Town Disney. ; Nothing like that used to happen in the early days of the resort. At Disneyland when I worked there, we might I have one Officer for EVERY "land", 5 plainclothes for shoplifting, 3 to 5 for each dance floor (back then we had dancing at Videopolis, Tomorrowland Terrace and Plaza Gardens) 3 -5 Main Gate Officers and 5 Officers in the parking lot not including the plain clothes officers (one walking around the parking lot and one in the "look out" on top of the Pirates building - later moved to Indiana Jones Building and now gone). ;
i had no issues with security whatsoever during this past trip and as a matter of fact a few even offered some new viewpoints that i was not aware of. ; most were quite gracious about it.
The one thing I have noticed about Security at WDW that's different is they do not seem in a rush to get you out of the park. I have been the last one in the Magic Kingdom and EPCOT shooting photographs. ; I've made ADR's for 15 minutes before park closing and was not sat at my table until park closing. The other night at Disneyland a few of us were standing at Space Mountain watching the Galaxy Ghost effects of the exterior of the building and the Security Officer kept telling us to go. How RUDE! LOL! The only odd thing I ever ran into at WDW with Security is when I turned my lens in the direction of a Security Officer on Main Street at the Magic Kingdom. He ask me not to take a photograph of him. I chatted him up and tried to gain a sense of comradeship and explained I was a former Security Officer at Disneyland for 10 years. Did not work. He was distant and odd. ; ;
I had no issues with security in August when it was just Sarah and me. ; Every night in August, we were the last ones out of the park that was open latest. ; I wouldn't even necessarily say that we had 'problems' in October, as dealing with security in a polite and respectful matter always diffused any potential situation. ; I posted this because we had six people with tripods at times, which is likely more comparable (although still not on the same scope) to Pixelmania than just our individual experiences. I thought the information might be helpful. We've had security encourage us to get moving (making references to the time, the park being closed, etc.) but most of the time all they've done is follow behind us a bit to slowly clear the park. ; We've even gotten pictures with security a couple of times. ; I think one of the things that is most helpful for Sarah and I when we're there is that she is good looking and personable. ; She'll strike up a conversation with the security or sweeper, and usually after that they are nothing but accommodating.
